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Post by will on Nov 20, 2009 16:31:29 GMT -5
"can't be specific about the issues..." Bwahahahahaha!!!! No, they can't. They don't know the issues.
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Post by john on Nov 21, 2009 0:11:18 GMT -5
Talk about Darwin's waiting room? Now, what did I say about the stupid following the stupid earlier?
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Post by jimschmidt on Nov 21, 2009 16:02:41 GMT -5
Exactly. I've said we're in a battle between smart and stupid in this country. That's the other side.
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Post by arozanski on Nov 23, 2009 6:46:55 GMT -5
I think it's simpler than that. The country is becoming dumb. The news, just like everything else, has been turned into a pre-chewed glop of contentless paste. Easily digestible and passed. The TV is essentially a straw. I think the slow death of the print media supports this. People are pack mammals. As they grow dumber, they tend to gravitate towards other idiots. Someone has to be the lead moron. This is why mammals are a failing species. You don't see reptiles herding around. Except for birds, and you know what happened to their nonavialan brethren... A really big unguided rock from outer space giving the Earth massive global cooling, thus destroying most of the biosphere, resulting in the massive death of large, cold-blooded creatures?
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Post by arozanski on Nov 23, 2009 7:09:53 GMT -5
Exactly. I've said we're in a battle between smart and stupid in this country. That's the other side. And why is this? Why do some people choose to walk away from (arguably) the greatest collection of knowledge in all of human history? I think people 1) get overwhelmed, feel intellectually inadequate, and give up, or 2) get riled up at the thought that someone else may know more about a particular subject, take it personally, then write off education in general as a emotional response. The advent of financially rewarding athleticism (opposed to the 'glory') also downplays the desirability of higher education. Why study so hard, if you can make millions throwing a ball?
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Post by rocky4948 on Nov 23, 2009 9:54:34 GMT -5
Exactly. I've said we're in a battle between smart and stupid in this country. That's the other side. And why is this? Why do some people choose to walk away from (arguably) the greatest collection of knowledge in all of human history? I think people 1) get overwhelmed, feel intellectually inadequate, and give up, or 2) get riled up at the thought that someone else may know more about a particular subject, take it personally, then write off education in general as a emotional response. The advent of financially rewarding aestheticism (opposed to the 'glory') also downplays the desirability of higher education. Why study so hard, if you can make millions throwing a ball? That ball better be hitting close to 100 m.p.h., and go were you want it to go everytime you let go!!!
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Post by arozanski on Nov 23, 2009 10:23:25 GMT -5
And why is this? Why do some people choose to walk away from (arguably) the greatest collection of knowledge in all of human history? I think people 1) get overwhelmed, feel intellectually inadequate, and give up, or 2) get riled up at the thought that someone else may know more about a particular subject, take it personally, then write off education in general as a emotional response. The advent of financially rewarding aestheticism (opposed to the 'glory') also downplays the desirability of higher education. Why study so hard, if you can make millions throwing a ball? That ball better be hitting close to 100 m.p.h., and go were you want it to go everytime you let go!!! I am assuming you are trying to make a point that only very talented athletes get to that income level - agreed. But it does not negate the issue that some people grow up expecting to get into the big leagues (usually influenced by family), and leave educational opportunities on the table because "they won't need them". If the market demands millions of $$$ for athletes, that is fine. But when more emphasis is placed on sports, compared to education, (as seen in many public schools), we are helping to create our own demise in the global economy.
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Post by rocky4948 on Nov 23, 2009 10:25:59 GMT -5
That ball better be hitting close to 100 m.p.h., and go were you want it to go everytime you let go!!! I am assuming you are trying to make a point that only very talented athletes get to that income level - agreed. But it does not negate the issue that some people grow up expecting to get into the big leagues (usually influenced by family), and leave educational opportunities on the table because "they won't need them". If the market demands millions of $$$ for athletes, that is fine. But when more emphasis is placed on sports, compared to education, (as seen in many public schools), we are helping to create our own demise in the global economy. True dat. And most get a free ride in college, but don't take advantage of that.
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Post by jeromeoneil on Nov 23, 2009 12:03:07 GMT -5
That ball better be hitting close to 100 m.p.h., and go were you want it to go everytime you let go!!! I am assuming you are trying to make a point that only very talented athletes get to that income level - agreed. But it does not negate the issue that some people grow up expecting to get into the big leagues (usually influenced by family), and leave educational opportunities on the table because "they won't need them". I am absolutely shocked at the number of kids out there who's goal in life is to be on TV, or be a rock star, or be famous. I'm in the process of moving one out of my house right now. Smart kid, but she's convinced she's going to be a model, so she's not looking too hard to move herself up life's ladder.
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Post by arozanski on Nov 23, 2009 12:08:15 GMT -5
I am assuming you are trying to make a point that only very talented athletes get to that income level - agreed. But it does not negate the issue that some people grow up expecting to get into the big leagues (usually influenced by family), and leave educational opportunities on the table because "they won't need them". I am absolutely shocked at the number of kids out there who's goal in life is to be on TV, or be a rock star, or be famous. I'm in the process of moving one out of my house right now. Smart kid, but she's convinced she's going to be a model, so she's not looking too hard to move herself up life's ladder. A neighbor has a young daughter, about 10, I guess. She has been attending gymnastics school for a couple years now, going to meets and whatnot. No college plans, no fall back position, being taken from school to attend meets, etc. She's one broken ankle away from having nothing to work with, other than "Would you like fries with that?".
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Post by jimschmidt on Nov 23, 2009 12:18:27 GMT -5
Exactly. I've said we're in a battle between smart and stupid in this country. That's the other side. And why is this? Why do some people choose to walk away from (arguably) the greatest collection of knowledge in all of human history? I think people 1) get overwhelmed, feel intellectually inadequate, and give up, or 2) get riled up at the thought that someone else may know more about a particular subject, take it personally, then write off education in general as a emotional response. The advent of financially rewarding athleticism (opposed to the 'glory') also downplays the desirability of higher education. Why study so hard, if you can make millions throwing a ball? I've always found this to be an utterly fascinating question and I've thought about it for hours. Here's what I think: 1. My take is that acceptance of religion trains someone to accept that belief is evidence of fact. Religion fools the brain into thinking that whatever you believe is true. From there, it's a small step to believing whatever you want. 2. We all have a natural genetic flaw -- a brain function that leads to reinforcement of previous thinking rather than challenging of it. This process is documented, though I'm not sure it's been proven to be genetic. But I think we're predisposed to make connections rather than to break them. So people integrate what reinforces and cast aside what doesn't. One needs to be rigerous to overcome this propensity. Your notions intrigued me... 3. I don't think these people are abandoning knowledge, rather that they never arrived at knowledgable in the first place. 4. And lastly, stupid people do demean intelligence, simply as a coping mechanism. I think that's certainly true.
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Post by flylooper on Nov 23, 2009 12:54:09 GMT -5
And why is this? Why do some people choose to walk away from (arguably) the greatest collection of knowledge in all of human history? I think people 1) get overwhelmed, feel intellectually inadequate, and give up, or 2) get riled up at the thought that someone else may know more about a particular subject, take it personally, then write off education in general as a emotional response. The advent of financially rewarding athleticism (opposed to the 'glory') also downplays the desirability of higher education. Why study so hard, if you can make millions throwing a ball? I've always found this to be an utterly fascinating question and I've thought about it for hours. Here's what I think: 1. My take is that acceptance of religion trains someone to accept that belief is evidence of fact. Religion fools the brain into thinking that whatever you believe is true. From there, it's a small step to believing whatever you want. 2. We all have a natural genetic flaw -- a brain function that leads to reinforcement of previous thinking rather than challenging of it. This process is documented, though I'm not sure it's been proven to be genetic. But I think we're predisposed to make connections rather than to break them. So people integrate what reinforces and cast aside what doesn't. One needs to be rigerous to overcome this propensity. Your notions intrigued me... 3. I don't think these people are abandoning knowledge, rather that they never arrived at knowledgable in the first place. 4. And lastly, stupid people do demean intelligence, simply as a coping mechanism. I think that's certainly true. There are those that are skeptical and require evidence before believing, and there are those that believe without the presence of evidence. The latter are called "The Faithful." The former are called left-wing, commie agitators bent on destruction of the country and God hisself.
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Post by arozanski on Nov 23, 2009 13:14:10 GMT -5
And why is this? Why do some people choose to walk away from (arguably) the greatest collection of knowledge in all of human history? I think people 1) get overwhelmed, feel intellectually inadequate, and give up, or 2) get riled up at the thought that someone else may know more about a particular subject, take it personally, then write off education in general as a emotional response. The advent of financially rewarding athleticism (opposed to the 'glory') also downplays the desirability of higher education. Why study so hard, if you can make millions throwing a ball? I've always found this to be an utterly fascinating question and I've thought about it for hours. Here's what I think: 1. My take is that acceptance of religion trains someone to accept that belief is evidence of fact. Religion fools the brain into thinking that whatever you believe is true. From there, it's a small step to believing whatever you want. It depends on the extent of religious education and degree of parental involvement. I was brought up Catholic, but attended public school, and my parents did not try to force religious beliefs upon me very strongly - the church attendance just sort of trailed off by my teen years. I could see this as a survival function - reinforcing knowledge gained should result in patterns of behavior to help the organism survive. Hunting, gathering, which food can be eaten, what trail has the most deer, etc. However, someone still has to take that first step - the forward thinker, if you will. Well, I think most people at least try initially, some give up quickly (grade school), some give up in the middle (high school to mid 20's), but I think if you make it to your 30's being accepting of knowledge, you will continue from there. In my opinion, no one starts out stupid. Maybe they don't process information well, or hard a difficult time making the higher level connections necessary to be an 'intellectual', but I believe that most people could function well in society and have some desire to continue to learn things, if this pattern is developed in early life. This is where it collapses, when a parent/guardian does not provide the child with intellectual nourishment, but instead serves a pap of easily digested 'facts' that perpetuate the problem, because it does not require thinking and does not require validation beyond "I said so".
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Post by jimschmidt on Nov 23, 2009 13:21:07 GMT -5
Stupidity and the Accumulated Knowledge are two separate aspects of a person. Some people definitely start out stupid. Those that do stay stupid -- it's not something you grow out of -- although most of them manage to acquire enough knowledge to be productive.
Some are so stupid that they convince themselves that stupid is smarter than smart. These folks are dead easy to manipulate. Even Sarah Palin can do it.
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Post by arozanski on Nov 23, 2009 13:29:35 GMT -5
Stupidity and the Accumulated Knowledge are two separate aspects of a person. Some people definitely start out stupid. Those that do stay stupid -- it's not something you grow out of -- although most of them manage to acquire enough knowledge to be productive. Some are so stupid that they convince themselves that stupid is smarter than smart. These folks are dead easy to manipulate. Even Sarah Palin can do it. Depending on how you define stupid, I will tentatively disagree with you. Someone who does not have the mental capacity to learn more than basic information (let's say colors, numbers, letters, that sort of thing) is not stupid, but unable to learn. Stupid is when you have the capacity to learn, but choose to walk away from it.
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